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Mastering game used to take years

Sat, Mar 3 2018 12:03 AM (120 replies)
  • jimshaw39
    675 Posts
    Sun, Feb 25 2018 4:48 PM

    Wutpa:

    BobApollo:

    I don't know how this would play out.  

    What if those suspected "false players" were written up in a WGT Forum post.  Perhaps in this forum post.  Other real WGT players could see the names of these "false players" and individually also report them to the management.

    I'm sure you already know it's against the T&C to name other players in the forum, especially to effectively accuse them of cheating/multi-accounting based on suspicions, however well-founded those suspicions might be.

    The thread would be shut down pronto, that's how it would play out.

    to say nothing about the possibility of defamation law suits. Nigel, your constant wisdom is surpassed only by your good looks. lol

    jim

  • ghettocop1
    259 Posts
    Sun, Feb 25 2018 5:56 PM

    Naturali:

    AgentBrown123:

    More than any year in the past I've noticed an increased amount of players who started in 2016/2017 and are shooting to me unrealistic scores while achieving certain stats that takes years of experience and knowledge.

    Their stats resembling players who've been at this game for several years.

    You could argue to their side:

    1. The game is much easier than when we started. (2010 equipment irons, nikes)

    2. All the guides out there that give spot on numbers

    3. Closing down old accounts legitimately and opening new accounts (I heard this is possible)

    When looking through stats and one thing that really stands out like a sore thumb is the putting. When you see less than or around a 1.3 putts per hole average and also the 5-10ft and 10-25ft% at 20% and 9% + mark. It seems highly unlikely you bring that down to this in 1 year. 

    I've seen some of these high credit RG winners. Legends that play one ranked round per week and it just happens that they take down the 1000c RG. Makes me want to stop playing those tourneys. It's just throwing credits away. But I just can't help myself. I fire at 'em anyway.

    My stats are a very close fit to the categories you mention above. 20 Months or so into the game. 1.33 putts per hole. My longer putt percentage could use some work. But the shorter ones are solid and improving. So, I'll chime in with some perspective from a fairly new guy with good stats.

    For me, #2 fits. Everything is out there.

    When I started playing WGT, it was a long Fourth of July weekend that rained the whole time. So I played ALOT of WGT golf. I was hooked. But I sucked just like we all do at first.

    I read the forums for all the tips. From equipment, to wind adjustments, to elevation adjustments, to putting techniques, etc. I have an analytical mind and am an estimator by trade. So it was all pretty fun for me to try to reverse engineer all that info. And it is a lot of info... but it's all there for ya if you dig around.

    Equipment:

    I used this equipment chart to map out which equipment to purchase and at what level to do it. Equipment Chart

    Wind/Elevation Adjustment:

    I used this general wind/adjustment aid to calculate the approach shots. Bilko's Wind Calculator

    I now use my own spreadsheet after reverse engineering the numbers from that program. It makes entering the numbers faster for me and I can adjust the factors to fit my equipment and my research on launch angles/landing angles/spin affect etc. LOL... call me a geek but I actually did that.

    Putting Distances:

    The forum is full of formulas for this and they are all very close to the same. However, almost all of them are best used for putts between 6 and 15 ft in length. For longer putts, those formulas make you hit it too far. For shorter puts, the formulas make you leave them short.

    In other words, it is not linear. It's sort of parabolic. The best calculator I've seen for putting distances is Young46's calculator. Just search on his YouTube channel or send him a message if you can't find it.

    While you're there, watch his putting tip videos. This leads me to:

    Putting Break:

    Young46 also has the best videos for reading the break. I watched everything I could find on how to read the break. He goes over some techniques like the JC Snead method and Tekoma's aim points etc.

    I derived my putting method from those. It is my own calculation but I wouldn't have come up with it for a while without watching his videos. I posted the formula on here before but here it is again:

    ((green speed / dot speed in seconds) * (distance in feet - elevation in inches))/1.25

    That is the basic formula for calculating the break IF you hit it the proper speed. It works for me, but I also tend hit it the putt slightly firmer, so I adjust the break accordingly. Anyway, that formula will get you looking at the right area to aim. Then make adjustment based on your own experience.

    There's 2 other formulas that I use but that one will serve you right for 90% of all putts. The other 2 formulas calculate the break if I am going to ram the putt or if the putt is severely downhill and I'm going to hit it the put less than half of what the total length is. The ol' slippery slope situation.

    Punch Distances:

    I don't have the link offhand. But WaLk0fLiFe posted somewhere the definitive punch chart for the Cleveland 64* Wedge. You might check his profile or Youtube Channel.

    Anyway, I didn't learn all this in a matter of months. But my progress was definitely boosted by all the information that is out there already. Especially Young46's YouTube videos. It would have taken much much longer to figure this out without the pioneers on this forum that posted their info for all posterity.

    As a matter of fact, as I was coming up through Legend Tier, you were nice enough to post something about giving away your mapped distances with certain iron/ball combos. I ran across that post a little late in the thread. You were going to retire but, I sent you a friend request anyway and asked for the chart. Never got that chart, but I chalked it up to the retirement. Probably worked out better for me in the long run to just run through a few sleeves and map the higher level equipment myself. But I appreciate that you were on the forums trying to help.

    TLDR ;)

    Good post in my opinion, and it was thoughtful of you to post all those methods!  

    I think there are still a lot of "feel" players out there, who are in disbelief of the skill level displayed by more and more players.  I started in 2010, and can't remember any charts or guides being talked about or used for the most part.  It seems to me that this is a HUGE part of being good at this game now.  You Tube videos and formula's abound.  I am just thankful that I don't play for credits, or compete in tournaments......for I would be badly embarrassed.  I think its pretty interesting to see what this game is becoming, and the technical ability of those now ruling this game.  This is coming from an "off-ding" putter who remembers when Kiawah and Beth Page were the only courses available.  Good times.....

  • Robert1893
    7,722 Posts
    Sun, Feb 25 2018 6:05 PM

    Naturali:

    Punch Distances:

    I don't have the link offhand. But WaLk0fLiFe posted somewhere the definitive punch chart for the Cleveland 64* Wedge. You might check his profile or Youtube Channel.

    See this thread:

    http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/403805/2786352.aspx#2786352

  • kavvz
    2,195 Posts
    Sun, Feb 25 2018 6:39 PM

    mkrizan86:

    alcaucin:

    kavvz:
    That score is literally the ONLY round that is top champion player calibre.

    True...

    kavvz:
    Look at the history;

    Ok....

    1st ever round -6 kiawah

    1st time around...

    Cong    -9

    St A      -12

    Erin      -9

    Pine     -12

    Peeble -11

    kavvz:
    nothing else really stands out.

    The 77% scrambling stat does..( and a few others )

    This one trying to 'box clever'..getting the RR count up hitting the Dec P3, 1st Tier paying monthly wins by 1 and now keeping it gold / platinum in 10-15 legend RGs.

    The earnings will be $1000 + by May  ;-))

     

    Some great Officer Fluffy-esque sleuthing by Andy there.

     

    100% this is not the guy's 1st rodeo. And his account should be closed. Cause it really doesn't matter, if he closed his previous account(s) or not, WGT rules state that if you restart (which you're allowed to do), you're not allowed to play for credits, before you reach your former tier. Period.

    However, given the fact the guy had a ton of rubbish, credit losing RG rounds, there are 2 options. He's either trying very hard to fly under the radar and this VT event is his coming out party, since there's a big enough prize. A viable option, considering he won the January TP tier open (by 1 shot) and the TP Merion classic (by 9 shots, lol).

    Or he's a garden variety restart with reasonable skills, who made a pact with some highly skilled player, who played the 53 for him and they'll split the winnings. Not that uncommon for people to do that. I'm kind of leaning towards that one. Cause, if he was really good, he'd be hitting the L500 cr brackets already (biggest cash cow ever), but if he's not, there's no chance he shot a 53 on his own.

    Edit: Had to check, seems like the L500 cr brackets are gone (good thing), so I stopped leaning towards anything ;-)

    It seems this player has someone's attention -- became a TL today with 164 RR's, and a 62 avg.  

    While I agree a 6 under 1st round is suspect, indulge me for a minute and take these into account as well.

    More pars than birdies.

    12ft ADP & 85% GIR -- nothing really to write home about. 

    The 77% scrambling --- WalkOfLife's punch chart could very well have something to do with that.  Since I found it; my scrambling has done nothing but go up.  Not to mention the rough and sand adjustments that are available.

    A TON of alt shot rounds played.  Could very well have learned the game that way since they don't show up in history and then decided to give tourney's a whirl.

    RE: getting an elite champion to play rounds for you I would really hope WGT tracks your IP and could easily tell if multiple people are using the same account -- unless they are buddies and that champ popped in for lunch & a round of WGT ;)

  • kavvz
    2,195 Posts
    Sun, Feb 25 2018 6:40 PM

    jimshaw39:

    Wutpa:

    BobApollo:

    I don't know how this would play out.  

    What if those suspected "false players" were written up in a WGT Forum post.  Perhaps in this forum post.  Other real WGT players could see the names of these "false players" and individually also report them to the management.

    I'm sure you already know it's against the T&C to name other players in the forum, especially to effectively accuse them of cheating/multi-accounting based on suspicions, however well-founded those suspicions might be.

    The thread would be shut down pronto, that's how it would play out.

    to say nothing about the possibility of defamation law suits. Nigel, your constant wisdom is surpassed only by your good looks. lol

    jim

    lawsuits?  c'mon now seriously... 

  • 11BC2
    555 Posts
    Sun, Feb 25 2018 6:51 PM

    kavvz:
    lawsuits?  c'mon now seriously...
    All we need to do is found a Discord Channel who's sole purpose is to write down suspects name.  Whoever makes the channel just needs to make sure everyone is allowed to leave comments.  From that point just check out the channel and then send Wgt a message.

     

  • terryntx
    56 Posts
    Sun, Feb 25 2018 7:25 PM

    ive been wondering this for a while... why would anyone care if people are cheating if you play this game to earn credits or money I suggest you find a second job just play this for fun I play hundreds of games a month if I suspected someone of cheating I would laugh wake up folks

  • pmm711
    5,709 Posts
    Sun, Feb 25 2018 8:56 PM

    One of the biggest red flags for me concerning a restarter is how fast they zip to the top of RG leaderboards after supposedly learning EVERYTHING in these forums.  My 2 brothers and I all started about the same time and it took us damn near a year to find the forums.  We also didn't know what a CC was and it took us a while to find those too.  So people who zoom to the top definitely know something coming in that normal folks do not.

    Then after we learned the game a bit and found CCs, etc. we befriended other players.  Well I joined a few big CCs and was a director in several.  As a director you get to know people in a different way.  One guy, who I'm still friends with on here, hopped to every major CC and was merely perusing their CC forums stealing all the knowledge he could.  Is he a top tier player today?  No...but I truly think he was underhanded in the way he used people and CCs for information. 

    So as to this thread, getting good immediately in this game is the exception rather than the rule.  You need some insider info (Darren's (Dazza's) 11 year old son for instance), OR, you must be a restarter.  No way this site is that intuitive...no f-ing way.

  • alcaucin
    9,041 Posts
    Sun, Feb 25 2018 10:31 PM

    kavvz:
    While I agree a 6 under 1st round is suspect,

    Not as much as -12 at PineHurts !

    kavvz:

    indulge me for a minute and take these into account as well.

    More pars than birdies.

    12ft ADP & 85% GIR -- nothing really to write home about. 

    The 77% scrambling --- WalkOfLife's punch chart could very well have something to do with that.

    kavvz:
    became a TL today with 164 RR's, and a 62 avg.  

    That's ^^ all you need ta know.   :D

  • mkrizan86
    1,866 Posts
    Mon, Feb 26 2018 12:32 AM

    kavvz:
    RE: getting an elite champion to play rounds for you I would really hope WGT tracks your IP and could easily tell if multiple people are using the same account -- unless they are buddies and that champ popped in for lunch & a round of WGT ;)

    One problem with this reasoning. Unless one is unemployed and living in his mother's basement, there's a reasonable chance he has logged on from different IPs ;-)

    In my almost 6 years, I've personally logged on and played from 6 different countries and a ton of different IPs from my own. Even my own home IP adress changes every time my internet provider does an update (cca once a month). 

     

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