Forums

sandbagging out of control

• gilman10 431 Posts

  Thu, Sep 1 2011 12:10 PM

  Very impressive stats. And the difference clearly is your putting. Which takes away any advantage someone might get off the tee.

  Forgive me, but it seems to me that youre win rate against master + is way way higher than vs legend. So if you prefer a tough match, why arent you playing legend plus which is clearly harder based on your stats?

  And if sandbagging is such a problem how do you explain not losing much to master+?

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Thu, Sep 1 2011 12:22 PM

  gilman10:

  And please dont exaggerate it  "equivalent par 4". Like we get 4 strokes a round by default. I have played plenty of games with legends and lost, Ive won some too sure, but dont make it out to be a gimme win for masters because you have some extra yardage to make up. 

   

  Pick your favorite course.

  Take your driver out of the bag.

  Play your 3wood as a driver.  Feel free to carry a Hybrid.

  Let us know how many strokes you lost.

• chrisironsbones 3,524 Posts

  Thu, Sep 1 2011 12:24 PM

  gilman10:

  Forgive me, but it seems to me that youre win rate against master + is way way higher than vs legend. So if you prefer a tough match, why arent you playing legend plus which is clearly harder based on your stats?

  And if sandbagging is such a problem how do you explain not losing much to master+?

  Most legends wont play me, but masters, tour masters will play thinking they have advantage, many of those masters are friends i used to play regular aswel.

  I don't loose much to a master as i'm a better player than them..simple.

  A better example of sandbagging is a level 80 Pro with 270+ driver...Or a master who scores low in tournaments, then plays a round and scores 88 to stay at master/pro

  This is what we are explaining but dont want to listen you have 22 wins and 15 losses against legends, i have 41 wins 43 loses, i fi was playing off your tees the losses i have would be at least half of what they are, but clearly you have more wins than losses against legends so you want to keep it that way because its easy $$ for you, so moving up a tier would be disastrous, (not that your purposely staying at t/master) But if you were only allowed the 275 yard driver, fair enough stay where you are every one is happy.  We get the R11 and long tees, you get short tees & shorter driver.

  Do what Mbagges said and then see how you feel

• gilman10 431 Posts

  Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:03 PM

  Holy smokes man, i was being polite here. Let me explain. At lease 4 of those legend wins are from disconnects in scored rounds. More still are from a friend of mine who is a new legend and we dont play for money.  A lot of those games are just scored not for money, I have won a few challenge matches against legends but id estimate im in the red on the whole against them. I understand what sandbagging is and its the reason i dont play tour pros and that should be the reason y ou dont play tour masters with equipment sets you feel are exploitive. 

  Legends refusing to play with you is precisely proof that they want to play against masters and win easy, now they want to even restrict what clubs they have so it becomes even easier. And my point stands. You cannot say in one breath that you prefer tough matches then say that you play master plus and have like a 3:1 win rate against them. It makes no sense. The tough matches are within your tier. If you prefer them, play there.

  And you do not lose 35 yards on every single hole you tee off from - and dont forget the legend Z balls that go forever. the 3wood example is a pure exaggeration. Its asinine and you know it. Im not saying there is no advantage, there is. But its manageable without forcing the masses to play in some kind of an elite world where you get to make the rules because you made it to legend with junky clubs. Like you said you beat master+ because you are better than them with a huge win rate with your disadvantage. How big of a problem is sandbagging really if youre putting those numbers up? Oh no, the poor legend who chose to play a master 2 tiers below him got sandbagged 1/4 times. Oh well. Avoid it next time play smart.

• chrisironsbones 3,524 Posts

  Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:09 PM

  gilman10:

  And my point stands. You cannot say in one breath that you prefer tough matches then say that you play master plus and have like a 3:1 win rate against them.

  Get it right its 7 to 1 LOL

  I play against people with the legend (z) ball and 70% of times my standard balls get driven LONGER so don't bring those into it....

  I dont cry "sandbagger because i've lost to a master, i CONGRATULATE him because he was playing well (and me off my game)

  All this story telling is all to do with you not wanting to loose your easy life at the short tees, nothing to do with me wanting to be elitist or anything, because personally i dont really give a t0ss about it because i'm good enough of a player where ever i tee off,. Hope you decide to reach legend soon..............................................................off to bed so wont get any more out of me tonight ☺

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:19 PM

  gilman10:

  And you do not lose 35 yards on every single hole you tee off from - and dont forget the legend Z balls that go forever. the 3wood example is a pure exaggeration. Its asinine and you know it.

   

  No it's not...in fact for the most part you would not have to deal with extreme distance diffferences, plus your Par 3's would all be the same.

  How about then set up a practice round and play SA say from Champ tees, moderate winds and see if you score about the same, or lose 4 or 5 strokes.

  I think whats difficult for some to understand is if you just miss the ding on your G10 9 iron, it's only the difference of a 3 foot vs 12 foot putt.

  My approach (assume we are SA #4) my approach is with a 4 or 5 iron, I ding it, 10 foot is nice, I slightly miss the ding with the 4/5/6 iron, now I have a 30-35 footer.

  I can make apples comparisons, because I still play the G10's.

  So in effect, a Legend has to play near spot on to win a match against a TM or Master (Chris is obviously good at it), where as a TM or Master (due to the majority of shorter club use) has a built in forgiveness factor.

   

• gilman10 431 Posts

  Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:21 PM

  So if youre not crying sandbagger what is with this whole god forsaken effort to "combat them"?

  And I will bring the legend balls into it because the do go further.  Ive seen it and can always tell when im up against it. They are ridiculously pricey though i admit that.

  Ok good 7:1 win rate now whos after easy money? Me with my 1:1 winrate on legends or you? Who prefers tough matches and playes masters 3 times as often as legends?

  Care to comment on why legends are avoiding playing you?

• gilman10 431 Posts

  Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:23 PM

  All of your points are good MB, but why do you play tour masters? Just dont do it if its not fair. Play legends. 

• lee22sharon 1,419 Posts

  Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:24 PM

  BillyTBudMan:

  gilman10:

  Why should you restrict my ability (or anyone elses) to buy equipment since you can play better and got to legend with worse clubs than me? Its a fact better equipment can save you strokes and make you a better player. Why are you inventing all of these crazy schemes of which you claim will make the game fairer. It actually wont because you are forcing those players to have worse equipment than you. 

   

  How is forcing you to give up some distance off the tee restricting your ability?  Does being able to hit all your drives within wedge distance of most greens make you a better player?  In my opinion it does not, nor does it prep you for the next tier of competition at all.  The only thing buying the R11's and Burners would do is "help you get there" faster...only to be SOL when you do, having no clue how to play your way around what would now be a completely foreign golf course.  It is a large difference i'm sure when players do reach Legend, and now have to figure out how to stick a 6 iron instead of a sand wedge.  By restricted even just the distance off the tee to lower tier players, they would already have an idea how to hit most of the same shots they would face when they actually do reach the next tier.

   

  And for those who think that they should be able to buy all the best equipment because that's how it is in the real world, are completely wrong.  You, as a weekend golfer, cannot go buy what the pros use.  You cannot go buy the R-11, (which by the way has been custom made to fit your height, build, swing speed, and launch angle by the guys at the Taylor Made factory, only after you've spent countless hours in their testing facility, and oh don't forget they are paying you millions to hit their equipment).  You simply cannot do that.  So, if we are comparing real life to this game, the Legends being the "pros" of circuit, should have the best equipment available to them, and them alone.  As they have put in the time and effort to get to where they are.  This game is nothing like real life, it is far more closely related to a math problem than the actual playing of golf, distances, wind speeds, green speeds, rough length, are all fixed.  In real life they are not.  If you're a 12 handicap in real life who hits the ball 250 off the tee, and you buy the shiny white R-11, do you automatically hit it 285???  No you do not.  you might get a few extra yards every now and then, but mostly you like an idiot for being the guy who ran out and got that awful looking thing as soon as you saw Darren Clark win The Open with it as an old guy.  Only in this game does the equipment more make the golfer, in real life it is the complete opposite.  If this game was based on skill and skill alone, we would all have the same clubs and balls.

  as i tried to say,  you said it better.  thank you.  another nickel thrown away.

   

• chrisironsbones 3,524 Posts

  Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:30 PM

  gilman10:

  Care to comment on why legends are avoiding playing you?

  Because many have played & lost, or have higher average than me, to them its $$ suicide as they think they will loose.  I can't really answer why many avoid playing me, maybe they want to win and are afraid of loosing to a decent legends, but these are the ones who avoid me, the ones who play me, hats off to them, we have very enjoyable rounds, win or loose.

  But beleive me, most opponents in challenge matches seem to be masters or tour masters, its very difficult to find legends to play and when i play in the morning, i cant even find any opponent at all for hours untill after dinner here (u.s are all still in bed probably) So i have to play whats there in front of me.

  And your talking bull 5hit if you think i'm looking for easy $$.  If i'm up against a tour master with lower average, same equipment as me & at level 90+, how the heck is this looking for a easy match, if you thought about it, this is going to be a TOUGHER match because if i was playing off shorter tees to someone on long tees i know i would easily win, so i'm handicapping myself by playing someone with lower average and them off shorter tees NOT thinking its easy. Its going to be tougher than playing someone off same tees.  Legends i love playing because its even, against a low average Tour master its tough going, but as you've seen in stats, i'm up for the challenge and win much much more than i loose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!