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sandbagging out of control

Mon, Oct 24 2011 4:39 AM (168 replies)
  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:38 PM

    gilman10:

    All of your points are good MB, but why do you play tour masters? Just dont do it if its not fair. Play legends. 

    I don't play too much MP against TM's or Masters for the above reasons, I usually just play Legends now...and if you look at my MP stats, you see I don't do MP too oftens...maybe 10-12 games a month...max.

    My concern is more with RG's and evening the playing field.

     

  • chrisironsbones
    3,524 Posts
    Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:44 PM

    Gilman just wants to keep his advantage and is happy where he is because he wins Ready go's, with low scores,(congress 29) but when you played the same course in open qualifier off longer tees you scored 65 & 69.  So why would you ever want to reach legend Eh.....?????????///

  • gilman10
    431 Posts
    Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:44 PM

    chrisironsbones:
    And your talking bull 5hit if you think i'm looking for easy $.  If i'm up against a tour master with lower average, same equipment as me & at level 90+, how the heck is this looking for a easy match, if you thought about it, this is going to be a TOUGHER match because if i was playing off shorter tees to someone on long tees i know i would easily win, so i'm handicapping myself by playing someone with lower average and them off shorter tees NOT thinking its easy. Its going to be tougher than playing someone off same tees.  Legends i love playing because its even, against a low average Tour master its tough going, but as you've seen in stats, i'm up for the challenge and win much much more than i loose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You tell yourself what you need to sleep at night. But the fact is you win more than 85% of your matches against master level people, and only 50% against legends. So it must be easier. If it were easier against legends why do you have a lower win rate? Numbers dont lie.

    Ill tell you why its easier: because they cant putt as well as you. 

  • gilman10
    431 Posts
    Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:48 PM

    chrisironsbones:

    Gilman just wants to keep his advantage and is happy where he is because he wins Ready go's, with low scores,(congress 29) but when you played the same course in open qualifier off longer tees you scored 65 & 69.  So why would you ever want to reach legend Eh.....?????????///

    hahaha i have 37 bucks in career earnings and its mainly from playing matches on my level. I won only 1 ready go ever, and placed second once. The other times in the top 10. And you are proving that you dont understand much about this game. In the open, the course was new so I did not know how to play it. I played it twice, yet by the time you saw that ready go score i had plaid much more. Besides it was evident that i wasnt going to qualify for the open so i didnt play it much.

  • chrisironsbones
    3,524 Posts
    Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:50 PM

    gilman10:
    But the fact is you win more than 85% of your matches against master level people, and only 50% against legends. So it must be easier. If it were easier against legends why do you have a lower win rate? Numbers dont lie.

    The losses i have are against the BEST players on this site, not any old legend.  Most have averages of below 60, and if you look at the list of 100 best players they are here, and i defy any one to trey and win against these (some i do win)

    http://www.wgt.com/forums/t/60885.aspx

  • gilman10
    431 Posts
    Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:50 PM

    MBaggese:

    I don't play too much MP against TM's or Masters for the above reasons, I usually just play Legends now...and if you look at my MP stats, you see I don't do MP too oftens...maybe 10-12 games a month...max.

    My concern is more with RG's and evening the playing field.

     

    RGs are a problem. Seems like it would be a whole lot easier to just restrict it to legend only tournaments so you could compete fairly amongst yourselves. You cant have it both ways where you get these massive fields of people putting credits into a tournament payout, and expect to win it all in your tier level. Right?

  • lee22sharon
    1,419 Posts
    Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:53 PM
    okay, i've read it all. my take is i'm not allowed to play ready to go's, or money tournaments, or matchplay for credits because of where i live, it is not legal. i can not argue any point concerning those venues of play. however it still seems to me that tiers, levels, are only there to give anyone who wants to be competative the opportunity to purchase better equipment, as they progress under the present system that has been withheld for artificial reasons. a well thought out handicap system would seem to be the way to go. a comment i made early on concerned the availability of factory sponsership, etc. as a more realistic way of providing superior equipment to and for the expert players. i also made mention that the cost of equipment is in need of rethinking, as well as how easy it is to advance under our current system. longeivity of play should not be a reason for advancement, only verifiable results. scores, not wins / losses. it is to easy to advance. those who have achieved the higher levels, good for them. as they have no further advancements to make except longivity, thier position should be revamped within its own group. if persons with better abilities/equipment want to play someone, anyone, it should be available. tiers/schmears, levels/schmevels, be darned, just play. let the handicap equal things out. another nickel, maybe it will be worth it.
  • chrisironsbones
    3,524 Posts
    Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:58 PM

    gilman10:
    RGs are a problem. Seems like it would be a whole lot easier to just restrict it to legend only tournaments so you could compete fairly amongst yourselves. You cant have it both ways where you get these massive fields of people putting credits into a tournament payout, and expect to win it all in your tier level. Right?

    The legend only tournaments are much tougher deviation wise, but i know if i was playing off tour master tees in a ready go i would always be near the top, think of your scores in the virtual open and u.s open and imagine how it would be if ready go's were always like that for you. Thats all.  You scored a 29 at congressional in ready go, but see the difference when holes which are easy for you to birdie we're grateful for a par.

  • ironking34
    749 Posts
    Thu, Sep 1 2011 1:59 PM

    I don't think the problem is with ready go tourneys.  Before the R11, Callaway balls, and burner 2.0 iron set then it would have been a problem but now it's not.  If you look at the monthly earning leader boards most of the top 25 is going to be legends.  Plus for most of the ready go's that I play a legend usually wins.  Plus, most sandbaggers don't play too many ready go's because it will advance them to the next tier if they do.

  • FlyinDoc
    201 Posts
    Thu, Sep 1 2011 2:13 PM

    The only problem area is players who deliberately game the system by avoiding Stroke Rounds to exploit the shorter tees in Challenge matches.

    Solution 1: Avoid playing them.

    Solution 2: WGT includes Matchplay stats/earnings in their criteria for promotion to next Tier.

    Simple.

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