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New Level for Low Average Legends

Tue, Mar 27 2012 11:34 AM (84 replies)
  • SGTBilko
    1,686 Posts
    Wed, Mar 14 2012 3:57 PM

    Kriztjan:

    when i started playing this game about a year ago, i was amazed looking at the top legend scores, Bollox shooting 58s at Oak and i could not go under 65, and at that time R11 or Nikes balls didnt exist, but i wanted to be up there, so i tried to make legend as quick as possible, problem i had to low level when i got there, i could not compete with that current equipment, but i grinded away, stayed away from RG until i could get the Burner 2.0 and at lvl 88 i got the R11 Driver, my account was basicly empty at that time, i still remember it, it was Aug first and i had about 400$ in earnings, 1500c left after that purchase,  i had deposited maybe 120$ until then. After that, when i had the best stuff, as all other top legends, i started playing all RG i could get my hands on, and i won some, i tried not to WD as my creditstock was low, i was at that time unemployed so all my earnings had to count, i got better and better and now some ppl would consider me one of the top guys, i have played alot and practiced alot to get where i am today.

     

    So instead of crying about guys that are good, try and get there oneself by practice and play, if one dont have that need or motivation to become one the top guys, well, set you mark lower then.

    ps, i still miss one or two 5ft putts

    Classic post...:-D

     

  • BmaEngnr92
    46 Posts
    Wed, Mar 14 2012 4:24 PM

    Mark me down as being against any kind of "inner-tier" tiers, or a new tier altogether. You should know, this comes from someone who is getting owned pretty badly as a n00b legend. I enjoy the challenge, and you better believe that as I learn, I'll start shooting better scores as a legend. It's a game people. Figure out what makes you play well, and do it. It's not impossible, regardless of how hard it seems at times. I suggest we all keep hacking away and improving, however slow that progress may be, and before long, who knows, we might just be pretty darn good ;).

  • genorb
    1,255 Posts
    Wed, Mar 14 2012 4:38 PM

    Kriztjan:

    when i started playing this game about a year ago, i was amazed looking at the top legend scores, Bollox shooting 58s at Oak and i could not go under 65, and at that time R11 or Nikes balls didnt exist, but i wanted to be up there, so i tried to make legend as quick as possible, problem i had to low level when i got there, i could not compete with that current equipment, but i grinded away, stayed away from RG until i could get the Burner 2.0 and at lvl 88 i got the R11 Driver, my account was basicly empty at that time, i still remember it, it was Aug first and i had about 400$ in earnings, 1500c left after that purchase,  i had deposited maybe 120$ until then. After that, when i had the best stuff, as all other top legends, i started playing all RG i could get my hands on, and i won some, i tried not to WD as my creditstock was low, i was at that time unemployed so all my earnings had to count, i got better and better and now some ppl would consider me one of the top guys, i have played alot and practiced alot to get where i am today.

    So instead of crying about guys that are good, try and get there oneself by practice and play, if one dont have that need or motivation to become one the top guys, well, set you mark lower then.

    ps, i still miss one or two 5ft putts

    I followed also a similar route. I mean I joined (almost) 16 months ago but I waited to have played for 9 months before entering my very first ready-go and I played today my very first 500 credits ready-go. I don't play much ready-goes because I am not interested to accumulate useless credits but I waited to be competitive before starting to play them. 

    There are three obvious key points in this game

    1. Approach shots: you need to be as good as possible at this. Obviously, the closer you are from the pin, the easier putting is. To master this, play a lot of CTTH / blitz. Start with those with low wind to master distance and then play those with high wind to master wind. Once you can score low in a rather systematic way, then your approach shot will be quite OK. Systematic doesn't mean each time, but means most of the time. Nobody can play very well during every single round.
    2. Putting: To start, play a lot on Bethpage. The green are quite flat. You will then learn the distance and the influence of small breaks. You have to focus a lot before each putt and really take your time in order to memorize the connexion between the moving dots and how much the aim must be moved. After a while, just seeing the dots moving will tells you how much to move the aim, it will become "automatic" if, each time you putt, your are taking your time to let your brain memorize. Of course, we all have bad days where we don't feel well how much to move the aim, and this even if you are an experienced player and a good putter. After Bethpage, you can pratice your putting on other courses, where breaks are moderate like St-Andrews, Congressional and RSG (Kiawah is not very good for practicing, especially the front 9 where the grids are wrong at many places).
    3. Short game: because nobody can be perfect on approach shot, you will hit rough and sand now and then. You have to avoid bogey at all cost, so your short game needs to be good. To practice your shot from the bunker, again play at Bethpage. There are bunkers around almost each green. Shot on purpose in the bunker and try to par. Here also you should practice such as you can par in a systematic way. To practice your shot from the rough, there are several possible courses. Congressional is a good option. Again shot on purpose in the rough around the green and try to par.

    Concerning the new tier:

    Well, end of February there were 235 legends with an average below 60. I am not sure it make sense to create a new tier for those players.

    But in any case, using the current average to create a new tier would not be a good idea. The way the average is computed was introduced back in September 2010, namely 1.5 years ago. Those who turned legend overnight never saw they average increases. For the others, the average stops to increases after 400 ranked rounds. So clearly you can have an average below 60 while you are shooting mainly score like 62-64. Indeed, the average is actually the average of your best 400 rounds, it tells you nothing about what kind of score you shoot the most (especially for those who play a lot of rounds). For example, take a player who turned legend 400 days ago and since then he plays 5 rounds per day in average. 1 round every 5 rounds he posts a 60 and the rest are scores like 62 to 66. Such a player has a displayed average of 60 while clearly his "real" average is significantly larger.

    However, I understand very well the frustration of many legends who clearly cannot compete with the bests. I am myself completely amazed sometime to see the scores that are posted in some ready-goes. Not only the winning score, but how many low scores there are. For example here

    http://www.wgt.com/tournaments/leaderboard.aspx?ID=f7f3b474-6ab4-49f3-9769-a01201013eab

    I know it was easy pin location at Bethpage with low wind but it's from legend tee and single play (holes 3, 5, 7 and 8 are not gimme birdie at all). 16 scores at 28 or below and three 26. Clearly the vast majority of legends would loose credits there.

    The problem is the huge distribution of strength among legends. Let's take average as a measure even if it's far from perfect. I didn't make a graph of the average distribution recently but I did it few months ago here

    http://www.wgt.com/forums/t/68958.aspx

    You can see that 80% of the legends have an average above 62.5 and 55-60% have an average above 65. 

    I don't have a solution for this problem but somehow there should have ready-goes for legends with higher average (or any other better measure of level of play) such as they play between them and let the beasts bests play among themself. But it's quite tricky to come with a good system without introducing a new kind of sandbagging among legends...

    PS: I am also missing now and then 5ft putts, how frustrating it is :) .

  • Richard4168
    4,309 Posts
    Wed, Mar 14 2012 4:43 PM

    skccvb:
    You will need to make more putts to do that - no offense.

    None taken. I should have better conveyed my point. I didn't mean the top players, I was just talking about average players like myself. I believe I did say as I was coming up through the tiers. When I started this game, all the players at the top with any tenure were already there.

  • phiber
    2,795 Posts
    Wed, Mar 14 2012 4:58 PM

    I am a fairly new Legend, well before I was really ready to be in my opinion and I see the wide range of average scores among the Legends.  when I really look at these players, however, the numbers tell the tale.  I was looking at the stats on one of the best players on here and was watching him putt through a  9 hole you tube video and about all I can say is his experience and desire is what got him there.  When I compared his numbers to, mine it was pretty easy to see clearly the difference.  He had like 67,500 putts I hade like 9100, his percentage of hitting fairways and greens wasn't at 90% butt his short game and putting was stellar.  He earned the right to be one of the best on here with all those rounds and all that experience.  Newer Legends like myself, haven't paid those dues.

    There are lots of Legends on here that have been here since day one and they know this game inside out, right side up and upside down.   It humbles me to see their stats but it gives me something to shoot for.

    Should they be at a different tier and have different Tees and faster greens, not my call and I could really care less, but I do agree that it would set another goal for folks like me to shoot for, in addition to sinking putts from 30' almost 100% of the time   ;).  But to set that level just because they are excellent at this game would be an atrocity.  incidentally, in the PGA right now, this week the averages for the players was listed and it ranges from 67.3 to 75.6 I believe it was.  Do they have to start another level of play for those unfortunate souls above 72, no they just don't make the cut and don't play in the big money events!

  • BubbaCrusher007
    1,567 Posts
    Wed, Mar 14 2012 5:11 PM

    Thanks for the  tips Genorb.

    I got started with wgt about last Nov..

    I have not wanted to compete for the very reason that it's unrealistic for me to assume that I am going to do well.

    I figure, when I'm good enough to at least birdie half of the holes or more, I may get my feet wet with RG's. But yeah, closest to the hole is really what it's all about with golf.

    I really appreciate the input from all the legends in this thread, it's cool to see what many of you think of wgt & the structure of the teirs and games, & how ave. don't make a shyt..

    Thanks for the input!

    Jeff

  • pudge53
    19 Posts
    Wed, Mar 14 2012 5:18 PM

    Sorry.....but you are so wrong. When you get to legend status....go ahead, play..if your average before you played was ...say a 65 per round....now, being a legend, you shoot 73...if you believe your scoring average will not go UP...wait till you get there. Then and only then, will you realize the inbalance of the system...and yes, at the level you are at now...you are in fact right...shoot a bad score, no change to scoring average. When you get to Legend status....it all changes to each and every game one plays, be it nine holes or eighteen....does tend to OPEN ones eyes.

  • Tonto0206
    460 Posts
    Wed, Mar 14 2012 5:34 PM

    Another new legend here, and most important for me reaching this tier is that I am in the same playground as the big boys, that is all I ever wanted.

    So, NO, I don't want them ( the best players ) separated from me again.

    I have just got to get better if I want to compete.

     

    Great post Genorb, thanks

  • cycle1979
    1,555 Posts
    Thu, Mar 15 2012 5:25 AM

    phiber:

    Do they have to start another level of play for those unfortunate souls above 72, no they just don't make the cut and don't play in the big money events!

    Yet there are lower level pro tours and seniors tours.... not sure how that fits in but creating events for higher average legends or newer legends could add some fun for those that can't compete in the RG's.  Even if it is something that is set up for free through the Community Tournament section of the forum.  Match play challenge bracket (200 credit)for 64+ avg legends???

    Just a thought.... but I agree with almost all of the posts on this thread!  The top guys have paid their dues and have gotten to their level through a ton of time and experience..... 

  • zedinoel
    24 Posts
    Thu, Mar 15 2012 5:43 AM

    I agree,the SUPER Legends are hard to compete with and it would be be nice to separate Super Legends  from the lower legends. Just the same I really enjoy playing here at WGT.

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