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Charlottesville

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Mon, Aug 21 2017 7:44 AM

  I mentioned above that I have nothing to discuss with neo-nazees, white supremacists and the KKK; however, as regards free speech, I do agree with the ACLU that all speech must be protected, especially that which we may personally find disgusting.

  The best way to deal with speech that disgusts us is to bring it out into the light of day where it can be ridiculed and dismissed for the hateful crap that it is.  Attempting to repress it only provides more motivation for its perpetrators. 

• alosso 21,072 Posts

  Mon, Aug 21 2017 8:23 AM

  drmoose:

  What i was referring to was the growing gap between the rich and the poor of this country. Malcontents are much more likely to vent their frustrations on their fellow citizens than are those who are contemplating what champagne to have with their caviar.

  We totally agree, but IMHO you can't blame "free trade" contracts or former governments for that, nor the foreign trade partners. Plus, the gap will only open further if the current reign continues.

  @Jim: I agree, too. The majority vote decides on erection by the mood of that time and on displacement of the symbols. It's a form of Zeitgeist.

  I never learned anything else than the consensus that those "1000 years" symbols are bad and banned and I understand our necessity of that step. It would hurt too much if this would be revived from our country. OTOH, I don't mind that some in other countries show their attitude that way while stepping on the side of the losers of WWII.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, Aug 21 2017 8:46 AM

  mkrizan86:

  A quick question to religious people, who are using the words socialism and communism as swear words. Y'all realise, that these 2 theories are by far the closest to J.C. teachings, right? And that capitalism, slavery and any kind of supremacy are the things he loathed the most. Right?

  Unfortunately, all of the above were only good theories and ideas, completely effed up by people. While J.C. and Marx would've probably been very good friends, as long as they never discussed their parents ;-)

  Gosh:)

  I am not very religious at all.  Raised a Catholic on my Mother's insistence.  She was born and bred in Southern Ireland  (Wicklow mountains) and so it was strong with her as with most there.

  Marx was very good at noticing and predicting the flaws in capitalism.  His huge error was suggesting that Utopia could exist elsewhere and failing to grasp the full ramifications of hard socialism (refer USSR history), and communism (refer 1950s China / N Korea now).

  We all accept that some socialism is good, at least in any capitalist society that has worked.  The tricky part is how much.I have friends who would be more socialist than me (not hard) but the debate is over that centre ground, not extreme grounds that have proven to be failed.

  Whilst the 3 dear nutjobs of NK may indeed be using the trinity as a model I think it is safe to say JC would be A political.

  Somehow for this new generation we almost need to find new terms.  The fight should not be between the terms socialism v capitalism, but rather the mix that is acceptable.  Somehow that simple base on which western democracies did so well seems so very hard these days for so many to grasp.

  My view:)

   

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Mon, Aug 21 2017 8:51 AM

  alosso:

  but IMHO you can't blame "free trade" contracts or former governments for that, nor the foreign trade partners. Plus, the gap will only open further if the current reign continues.

  I totally agree. I've always been on the underside of the middle class and I'm more of a dinosaur than the Doc. The struggle never changed, the numbers just got bigger. I made more but it cost more so it's basically a wash with different numbers. 

  The proliferation of multi-millionaires and billionaires lending their "expertise" to governmental matters is what's most frightening, not how much more money they have than me. I can't fathom the number of back room deals and back scratching that's going on behind closed doors to meet all the individual agendas. And for what? To get richer? How about acting like Bill Gates and use the wealth to help the people that made it for you. You think there's any of that thinking going on now? I highly doubt it.

   

   

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, Aug 21 2017 9:04 AM

  alosso:

  drmoose:

  What i was referring to was the growing gap between the rich and the poor of this country. Malcontents are much more likely to vent their frustrations on their fellow citizens than are those who are contemplating what champagne to have with their caviar.

  We totally agree, but IMHO you can't blame "free trade" contracts or former governments for that, nor the foreign trade partners. Plus, the gap will only open further if the current reign continues.

  IMO Governments must answer as that is the only mechanism we have.  No one really knows the way through this, but too much central power I would see as flawed (extreme globilisation if you will).  America as a Nation State did just fine and traded with all, and remaining a Nation State I see as what I would want if there (I am a Brexiteer).

  We do need to help more.  I am guilty as well.  My last guitar was from China..  I could have bought Oz but the Chinese one bang for buck was fab, and if most think about whatever they bought recently they are just as guilty.  The gap is wide because of what went before.  There is no forecast predicting a narrowing from whomever is in power.  The folly of (hard) socialism was thinking that would solve it, but it never solved poverty and lack of freedom and gaps in wealth were divisive even if the knowledge was suppressed.

  Free Health, education a drive on affordable housing and individuals rights to be who they are and a leg up for people, through no fault of their own, now being undercut..................Easy said as is saying being anti capitailist it's just that one is hard and the other we know we do not want (if looked at closely).

• phred952 2,714 Posts

  Mon, Aug 21 2017 10:48 AM

  mkg335:

  I mentioned above that I have nothing to discuss with neo-nazees, white supremacists and the KKK; however, as regards free speech, I do agree with the ACLU that all speech must be protected, especially that which we may personally find disgusting.

  The best way to deal with speech that disgusts us is to bring it out into the light of day where it can be ridiculed and dismissed for the hateful crap that it is.  Attempting to repress it only provides more motivation for its perpetrators. 

  +1.  Very well said.

  As soon as there are limits on speech by either side of the political spectrum, our first amendment is worthless.  I do not like what is said by either the far right or the far left, but they have an absolute right to speak, as long as they do not incite violence.  

  The problems expands when either side doesn't feel the other side has any right to voice their opinions, which is were we are for the most part today.

• craigswan 31,821 Posts

  Mon, Aug 21 2017 11:42 AM

  Does your voice count .

  Up to 1.8 million Scottish votes were "wasted" in June's general election because they had no impact on the result, a study claims.

  The Electoral Reform Society found 66.4% of votes did not go towards electing an MP under Westminster's first-past-the-post (FPTP) system.

  It said there had been a "sea of wasted votes and a surge in tactical voting".

• gonfission 2,246 Posts

  Mon, Aug 21 2017 11:59 AM

  drmoose:

  Statistics, as you well know, alosso, can be misleading.

  This is how easy economics can be misunderstood.

  Please try to solve the puzzle with your first guess, and post it.

   If you find a different answer the second time around, please post it.

  This is not off subject matter, it is how easily statistics can seem to be what they are not.

  Please be honest.

  

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, Aug 21 2017 12:12 PM

  I will play:)

  48

  It really never matters though as you probably agree......................People that 30 years ago could easily have kids and a house and a vacation now have kids that can't possibly replicate that.

  The only question apart from Craigs FPTP conundrum is how do we address that.....My vote is massage a very good system, not go off down known fked alleys called hard socialism or worse.............................................Now whoever can answer that will be up there instantaneously with the greats............

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Mon, Aug 21 2017 12:17 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  I will play:)

  48

  I see 44. Then again, it's an assumption of sorts because I'm assuming it took 2 boots to equal 2 and each had a value of 1. But then you study it and realize MDAS is what you grew up learning so 41 would be the answer if you do the multiplication first.

  48  44  41. Only one's right.  ;-)